Policy-Discussion

[Jens Paul <cacert AT canyonsport.de>]

Hi Ian,
> > That wouldn't be a problem. We were especially talking about the 
> > situation when 2 assurers are of different opinion. Than the "senior" or 
> > "officer" should be able to make a binding decission.
> >     
>
>
> OK.  Well, we could hack the Arbitration system by simply 
> declaring that the Senior Assurer acts as Arbitrator for all 
> disputes filed during the event.
>   

Perfect.

> (When a dispute is filed involving that person, then they 
> would have to recuse ... but let's not get distracted on the 
> exceptions.)
>   

Shouldn't be a problem because we suggested that - at larger events - 
the senior assurers / event organisators should stay in the background 
helping the junior assurers. So usually they are not involved. They can 
be considered "Witnesses" pointing to the policy in most cases I guess.

> So, then when two assurers hold different opinions, the 
> dispute is filed.  The Senior Arb hears both sides, examines 
> the case, then rules.  In CAcert Arbitration, _the ruling is 
> binding on the parties_.
>   

I like it. And if there is still any problem, we can make a large 
dispute afterwards ...


>    "In this argument, Bob, do you file dispute against Alice?"
>
>    "Yes, dammit!"
>
>    "OK, the court of CAcert is now in session.  Now hear 
> argument A, ..."
>
>    (Alice talks...)
>
>    "and now hear argument B."
>
>    (Bob talks...)
>
>    "OK.  According to the CPS, section 42 subsection 666 ad 
> nauseum appendix 69 ......... Bob is wrong and Alice is 
> right.  I therefore rule that Alice's version is accepted, 
> and Bob is to buy each of Alice and Arbitrator a cup of 
> coffee.  This ruling is binding.  Court dismissed!"
>   

Perfect. Exactly what I meant. Just to make "critical" decissions in a 
timely manner. I like it.

> I think in the model that CAcert has, anyone can file a 
> dispute.  Perhaps it is the same thing:  put a HOLD on an 
> assurance.
>
> Then, only an Arbitrator can rule;  or as you would have it, 
> only the Senior Assurer on the ground can allow it forward.
>   

Same thing. No need to discuss whether we call him "senior assurer" or 
"local arbitrator". Just my lazy german mind :-)

> In the previous discussion of mil range safety I was 
> wondering whether we could view the Safety Officer as 
> analogous to the Arbitrator.  But it seems to be that we are 
> moving towards a rule of:
>
>    x.  Senior Assurer takes on role of Arbitrator, unless he 
> has to recuse himself in a case in which he is involved.
>   

Agreed.

>   
> > >   And if an assurer feels strongly enough about this ... then can 
> > > always walk around the corner and set up another booth ;-)
> > >   
> > >       
> > And that's why someone should be able to forbid that if a single person 
> > is not behaving ... Let's make an example: If I go to CeBIT, totally 
> > drunk, start working as an assurer at the CAcert booth and start 
> > shouting "Fuck off you applicants you ..." then you would say "hey 
> > people: see, this is the way our assurers behave"? I think in such a 
> > case someone SHOULD be able to stop such things ...
> >     
>
>
> Aha.  That's what you are thinking!
>
> I would interpret that then as the Senior Assurer having 
> Dispute Resolution rights ... in order to do what you say. 
> But it has to be done according to the rules;  a dispute 
> must be filed and then dealt with.
>   

No problem with that! Just the need to be able to get such "rulings" 
quick at an event.

> OTOH, are exhibitors at Cebit that badly behaved?  Perhaps 
> they should be locked up and forgotten, no rules, no rights, 
> no visits from mama ;)  Perhaps CAcert shouldn't appear 
> where there are riots sparked by drunken football hooligans...
>   

That's another topic. But just visit a "after event" party after the 
closing of CeBIT and sometimes you really thing it is a bunch of drunken 
football hooligans and not IT professionals :-)

> No, now that I see what you are asking for, it is easy to 
> see that it is a right, not a privilege.
>   

OK


Jens
begin:vcard
fn:Jens Paul
n:Paul;Jens
org:CAcert Inc.
email;internet:cacert AT canyonsport.de
title:Education Officer
version:2.1
end:vcard